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Religion [message #164756] Sun, 06 April 2008 01:07 Go to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini

Would you describe yourself as...[ 27 votes ]
1. Christian (firm believer) 1 / 4%
2. Christian (by default) 3 / 11%
3. Other God/Saviour believing religion 0 / 0%
4. Agnostic (don't know what to believe) 7 / 26%
5. Atheist (no god, no religion) 11 / 41%
6. Please remove the topic 5 / 19%

Just curious before I jump in at the deep end as to who I might offend but I'll start off by stating I'm firm believer in Atheism Confused

Until about a year ago when I listened to Richard Dawkings The God Delusion audio book I did have a few doubts about GOD as such (I have 0% doubts now) but have never really in my adult life had any real doubts about religions themselves being anything but primitive methods used to control people and provide answers to questions that until the advances in science and discovery in the last 100-400 years provided answers to question such as what is sun, where did we come from, whats those spakley things in the night sky etc...

I used to just use the hypothesis that if 20% of the worlds people are Christian, 20% Muslim, 10% Jewish, 20% Hindu, 15% Buddhist, etc.. (I'm only guessing %'s here) then the odds are stacked against anyone picking the correct religion to follow in order to 'go to heaven' so take the risk of following any of them? Laugh

If you don't wish to post then please feel free to click on the appropriate option in the poll as I do know many people with faith can be uncomfortable discussing it one way or another and if you feel this topic wrong for the forum then please let me know and I'll remove it.

Interestingly, Youtube has lots of interesting video on the subject...i like this one which I think hits the nail on the head quite quickly although I do recommend that anyone with a wavering faith gives the God Delusion book a good read as its a real eye opener and if your mind is open enough to rational thought then you too could be converted but don't feel obliged

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ&feature=relate d

[Updated on: Sun, 06 April 2008 01:14]

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Re: Religion [message #164757 is a reply to message #164756] Sun, 06 April 2008 09:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quazi is currently online  Quazi   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
I had to do the sunday school thing when at school as an infant, then the junior school thing too.
I personally don't beleive any of it, I have read the bible just out of curiosity and found it an interesting read, but that's all.

I just don't buy into it, I've tried on a few occasions with all manner of folk trying to convert me to do so, and their justifications for it.
I personaly wouldn't nock anybody that is religious, it's their choice, after all their faith is in their belief, they don't have to have visual proof of it being true, all they need is faith.
I never go to church unless I'm attending a wedding or something of that nature although I love the architecture of the buildings, they fascinate me.

My personal religion is to live by the good of man and nothing more.
Re: Religion [message #164758 is a reply to message #164756] Sun, 06 April 2008 11:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DrMartin is currently offline  DrMartin   United Kingdom
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(18) Geoff Duke
I don't firmly believe anything although I'm sceptical about religious faith. I like to keep open to any possibility but my rational side says ALL deity-based religion is ultimately a human construct dreamt up by the ruling elite in order to confer special powers upon them and legitimise their status as rulers above and beyond "might is right": as in "the divine right of kings" and therefore simply a means to control the uneducated masses - often using fear as a motivational force. Having said all that, I have to admit (ironically) that I'm slighty in favour of the social glue / moral guidance / sense of "community" etc that (most) religion seems to provide, simply because the absence of it tends to lead to quasi-anarchic situations such as can be witnessed in Britain today - with the break down of family life, obscene levels of crime, dissorder etc, etc. Just my opinion of course. So I suppose what I'm saying is, although I don't really believe that religion has any substantive basis - in a supernatural sense, I do think it's the lesser of two evils. But then, of course, since there are multiple faiths, we get one lot wanting to kill another lot! so we end up killing each other anyway! think All goes round in circles really doesn't it? Confused RollEyes Ho hum Neutral
Re: Religion [message #164761 is a reply to message #164756] Sun, 06 April 2008 11:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slaz is currently offline  slaz   United Kingdom
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(21) Valentino Rossi
If there was ever a thread that needed index.php?t=getfile&id=13149&private=0 this is it think
Re: Religion [message #164762 is a reply to message #164761] Sun, 06 April 2008 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RWB929 is currently offline  RWB929   United Kingdom
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slaz1 wrote on Sun, 06 April 2008 11:17

If there was ever a thread that needed index.php?t=getfile&id=13149&private=0 this is it think


Agreed Thumbs Up

Religion - causes more wars than any thing Thumb Down
Re: Religion [message #164764 is a reply to message #164762] Sun, 06 April 2008 12:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ginganinga is currently offline  ginganinga   United Kingdom
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(17) Kevin Schwantz
Should be another option

7. Dont give a f**k

Not interested in religion at all , causes more problems than anything else .

Ginga smile
Re: Religion [message #164766 is a reply to message #164764] Sun, 06 April 2008 13:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WD   Netherlands
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ginganinga wrote on Sun, 06 April 2008 13:45

Should be another option

7. Dont give a f**k

Not interested in religion at all , causes more problems than anything else .

Ginga smile


I 2nd that.


Devout Atheist me.


You'll find by the way that the most popular religion on the planet is the Muslim faith.
Re: Religion [message #164769 is a reply to message #164764] Sun, 06 April 2008 13:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gone2 is currently offline  gone2   Netherlands
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(15) Kenny Roberts
Nicely put Doc.
And nicely put Ginga - I'll go you one further, if there is a god, he/she/it doesn't give a fuck either. Because everything that happens, is OK. There ARE no rules, except what we make up. And that's what most religions are, just sets of rules that some fuckwits wants to have obeyed by pretending that God told them so.
Re: Religion [message #164786 is a reply to message #164756] Sun, 06 April 2008 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DrMartin is currently offline  DrMartin   United Kingdom
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(18) Geoff Duke
Nicely put OB Thumbs Up
Re: Religion [message #164788 is a reply to message #164786] Sun, 06 April 2008 15:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andy_scouser is currently offline  andy_scouser   United Kingdom
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(16) Barry Sheene
this is a conversation that i really can't be bothered with, im with you lot about the whole thing. When talking to people with religion, you can't discuss things, basically they have shown themselves to be irrational from the very off!
Re: Religion [message #164789 is a reply to message #164788] Sun, 06 April 2008 15:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hondavee4 is currently offline  hondavee4   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
said it before (not long ago) and ill say it again Neutral


hondavee4 wrote on Fri, 08 February 2008 20:09

i fukin hate religion Thumb Down


Re: Religion [message #164793 is a reply to message #164789] Sun, 06 April 2008 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Abacus is currently offline  Abacus   United Kingdom
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I was thinking about starting my own religion.

Bal. We all have to wear Balaclava's and have the right to cover our faces.
Re: Religion [message #164795 is a reply to message #164793] Sun, 06 April 2008 16:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Abacus is currently offline  Abacus   United Kingdom
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I used to say I stopped drinking, smoking, and fornicating for religious reasons.

The Great Money God
Re: Religion [message #164797 is a reply to message #164761] Sun, 06 April 2008 16:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
drew70 is currently offline  drew70   United Kingdom
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slaz1 wrote on Sun, 06 April 2008 11:17

If there was ever a thread that needed index.php?t=getfile&id=13149&private=0 this is it think


Thumbs Up
Re: Religion [message #164822 is a reply to message #164797] Sun, 06 April 2008 20:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lara929   United Kingdom
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(15) Kenny Roberts
We had the misfortune to have to attend another family funeral this week. It was a Catholic service, unlike my mum's recent burial which was was allegedly Christian but was just a lovely celebration of her life.


Anyway, when they lowered the relative's coffin into the grave the priest said " as he was in the true faith, he now joins God in Heaven" or something like that, I'm paraphrasing here.........



And I was left thinking, he's been dead for 10 days. Where was he in those 10 days if he's only just gone to Heaven cos the priest says he can now?








I like to believe what my mum believed: a kind of hippy 60s thing called Gaia: you come from the Earth, a living entity of its own, and you return to it when your time is done.

[Updated on: Sun, 06 April 2008 20:29]

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Re: Religion [message #164826 is a reply to message #164822] Sun, 06 April 2008 21:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ondablade   Ireland
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(15) Kenny Roberts
Thumbs Up OK topic, but tough to discuss in this sort of context. Or given the limits of language and conceptual thought at all.

Don't have much time for institutional religion which inevitably is largely driven by vested interests - a mutual neediness.

Would be surprised to ever be faced with an anthromorphic (physically human-like) deity, at least not in the terms we usually define one

Suspect that there's intelligence behind it all

There's ways of living more likely to bring happiness than others, but these make no sense to mind conditioned by the usual macho stuff society teaches us

It starts with taking responsibility for ourselves

Perhaps a route towards happiness is to seek ways to drop the conditioning that keeps us blindly circling in the goldfish bowl - with a view to becoming able to actually see what's in front of our noses, and use what limited intelligence we have to stop behaving like robots and actually exercise some free will.

'Belief is the death of intelligence'

......or put another way:

'Tis an ill wind that blows no minds'

(Perhaps the secret is to live with uncertainty and stay open - while working the issue. Perhaps a determined certainty that there isn't is as great a barrier to progress in this regard as the opposite view.....)

[Updated on: Sun, 06 April 2008 21:26]

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Re: Religion [message #164842 is a reply to message #164826] Mon, 07 April 2008 08:14 Go to previous message
Marco is currently offline  Marco   United Kingdom
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(14) Eddie Lawson
Im with jans mum and the Gaia . Life is part of Mama earths cycle itself simple . Fluffle
You live you die . Tongue
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