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EU - IN or OUT [message #294893] Thu, 02 June 2016 11:01 Go to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini

EU Referendum[ 18 votes ]
1. REMAIN in the EU 2 / 11%
2. LEAVE the EU 12 / 67%
3. Undecided 4 / 22%

time for politics and a poll

Normally I'm good at being decisive were politics are concerned but on when it comes to this vote, I'm still undecided.

There's lots of realistic PROS and CONS for both plus many unknowns which makes it a tricky choice as I like the idea of the UK being in control of its Borders and not having to pander to the EU's whims but the flip side is if we batten down the hatches in terms of rights of EU citizens to reside and work in the UK, the EU will probably do the same to us. Same goes for the EU's other rules with regard to working rights as without that we'll be subject to the current UK governments take on those and I doubt they'd afford us more rights than at present and most likely we'd loose rights.

One thing for a OUT vote could be that the rest of the EU might well 'beg' us to stay and offer incentives such more of what Cameron negociated earlier in the year or even may conced it head first policy/gravy train of ever closer integration like the propsed EU armed forces (that'll never work) and entry to ever more members like the medium to long term goal of Turkey joining and with that an even more open border with the Middle East Wall

Much to ponder in the next 3 weeks, so whats your take and if your decided one way or the other, do you have concerns about the CONS if the vote goes your way think

[Updated on: Thu, 02 June 2016 11:04]

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Re: EU - IN or OUT [message #294894 is a reply to message #294893] Thu, 02 June 2016 14:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slaz is currently offline  slaz   United Kingdom
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(21) Valentino Rossi
I'm a bit like the Mick Jagger approach,personally at
my age it wont make that much difference to me,but then i
have to think of my daughter and grandaughters future,so
an i'm very much undecided,unlike the Mrs who want out think
Re: EU - IN or OUT [message #294895 is a reply to message #294894] Thu, 02 June 2016 21:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quazi is currently offline  Quazi   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
Out, and slam the fucking door behind us. Thumbs Up
Re: EU - IN or OUT [message #294897 is a reply to message #294895] Fri, 03 June 2016 13:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gone2 is currently offline  gone2   Netherlands
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(15) Kenny Roberts
don't worry darling, we'll slam it for you. Grin

I was going to do a postal vote, but apparently now that I've been out of the UK for 15 years, I can't. Laugh Laugh Laugh

Truth be told, I have no bloody idea what the consequences would be. Certainly we can believe nothing that the politicians tell us. So all we have to fall back on is good old-fashioned pragmatism and common sense, maybe flavoured with a little experience of what history has told us. It does seem to repeat itself.

Churchill was very keen to have a united Europe, but that was probably due to the apparent threat from communism. Which has not disappeared, it's just got more sneaky. Macmillan was very keen to get in, had to beg more or less, and de Gaulle absolutely didn't want us in. For me that's one good reason not to leave.
What does the near future have in store for us? More bad weather seems certain, and given that the uk is a bit leaky, that might be one advantage, if insurance risk can be spread around Europe instead of just UK. Military coordination in Europe is no advantage; it seems not to be do-able. So defence against a common enemy is not going to be a good reason. Conversely, no-one is going to come to the rescue of UK if it leaves, but there again, given the current state of it, who would bother apart from the Albanians?
Availability of food might become an issue; the UK cannot supply all the food it needs. A lot of cheap stuff comes from Africa,especially off-season stuff. China is busy throwing its weight around there, and is likely to ignore everything except a direct threat from big Europe or the USA. On the other hand, it might be time the UK reverted to eating seasonal home-grown stuff. At least it might get a bit of the weight off.
Water is reckoned to be a commodity that will become too scarce in the future, but that's hardly relevant for the UK given the amount falling from the sky right now. A bit more storage would help.
Fuel: ah, now it gets clearer. How much fuel is left in the north sea? How much will Europe care about ensuring the gas pipes from Russia to the UK are in order? Well, not to worry, there's always fracking. All those in likely oil-producing areas had better get their houses insured for subsidence and earthquakes. And there's always all that coal underground that's too expensive to get: that will change. South Africa was producing petrol from coal during the apartheid years, I'm sure they'll be please to sell the technology to the UK. Oh yes.
Re: EU - IN or OUT [message #294900 is a reply to message #294897] Fri, 03 June 2016 17:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quazi is currently offline  Quazi   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
Sounds good to me.

We can develop alternative's for our own market, naturally within our own guidelines, created oh I don't know, by us! Grin

Get our own shit in order before we open the curtains again and show our wares to the rest of the world, who by then will crave our specialist knowledge, and products especially in flood defences and waders. Wink



Can you bolt it too OB and switch the port light off when you go. Laugh Wink
Re: EU - IN or OUT [message #294903 is a reply to message #294900] Fri, 03 June 2016 20:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
spagiratwink is currently offline  spagiratwink   United Kingdom
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(6) Moto1 GP Racer
Yes , I'm voting out also, but then again I voted no in the first place, the world is a different place from when the first vote took place, its a lot smaller . Before we entered the Common Market we were in the Commonwealth, a more naive co-operative granted , but maybe a closer family and with Britain being a Colonialist we owed it to those countries to give them something back , I dont think we owe anything to Europe that debt was paid in 1914-18 and 1939-45 , and its time we made our own destiny with our own values Thumbs Up
Re: EU - IN or OUT [message #294908 is a reply to message #294897] Fri, 03 June 2016 23:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DrMartin is currently offline  DrMartin   United Kingdom
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(18) Geoff Duke
oldbastard wrote on Fri, 03 June 2016 13:46


Certainly we can believe nothing that the politicians tell us.

Sad but true.

Churchill was very keen to have a united Europe, but that was probably due to the apparent threat from communism.

The irony being that the more 'united' Europe becomes the more it starts to resemble communism.

Military coordination in Europe ...

NATO

Availability of food ...

This is an odd one for me. When I go into French and Spanish supermarkets they are full of fruit and veg grown within the EU - and it's good stuff. However, English supermarkets are not full of this stuff. Most of the fruit and veg sold in the UK seems to come from outside of the EU and I don't know why that is?

On the other hand, it might be time the UK reverted to eating seasonal home-grown stuff. At least it might get a bit of the weight off.

Fat chance Laugh

fracking ... All those in likely oil-producing areas had better get their houses insured for subsidence and earthquakes.

That's nonsense and you know it.





Out - obviously

The media debate has already boiled down to a simple dichotomy between the left - who want to stay in, and the right - who want to leave. When all those media luvvies signed that open letter a couple of weeks back, lecturing the rest of us plebs on the benefits of staying in the EU, that sealed it for me.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/672068/European-Union-Brexi t-EU-referendum-UK-open-letter-Benedict-Cumberbatch-Patrick- Stewart

Tossers

[Updated on: Fri, 03 June 2016 23:49]

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Re: EU - IN or OUT [message #294935 is a reply to message #294908] Sat, 04 June 2016 22:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pipe is currently offline  Pipe   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
It's clear the way it's going in here Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

I don't do politics nor do I try to influence peoples own thoughts when they clearly don't have any of their own ... Having just had to legally put into place a Work Place Pension Scheme.

What a fukkin joke Laugh Laugh Laugh

Employees are like .... Oh great I will have some of that, company gives me more Wink

So be it.

The pension will give them a cup of coffee per week at 80 .. from their chosen Bar Tender (Barista) ... Correct me if I am wrong K on the meaning of the word Laugh Laugh

Fact is they are too stupid to realise a companies contribution is a drop in the ocean, if they really want a pension they have to sacrifice their own income and standard of living pronto.

Nobody told them that in the Purple Cuddly Toy Advert did they Laugh Laugh

Feed em shit .. Make em feel good ... that's where the vote is

[Updated on: Sat, 04 June 2016 22:17]

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Re: EU - IN or OUT [message #294948 is a reply to message #294894] Sun, 05 June 2016 17:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RWB929 is currently offline  RWB929   United Kingdom
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(13) MotoGP Champion
slaz wrote on Thu, 02 June 2016 14:44
but then i
have to think of my daughter and grandaughters future,


This is why I am voting out.
I see more and more young adults living at home with parents due to house prices / rents being inflated by demand, this will only increase with uncontrolled immigration.
Yes it might be great that my house is worth 10 times what I paid for it, but its not great seeing your daughter and her partner having to saddle themselfs with a 40 year mortgage on a basic 2 bedroom flat Thumb Down

Nowadays it appears that the EU is fast becoming a federal state as opposed to a common market for European trade.
Re: EU - IN or OUT [message #294956 is a reply to message #294948] Sun, 05 June 2016 23:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pipe is currently offline  Pipe   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
Thumbs Up
Re: EU - IN or OUT [message #294957 is a reply to message #294956] Sun, 05 June 2016 23:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pipe is currently offline  Pipe   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13312914_10207 737589812740_4698817694754487065_n.jpg?oh=c36f850ad86e091b78 98a38e56fa6606&oe=57C25D75
Re: EU - IN or OUT [message #294968 is a reply to message #294895] Tue, 07 June 2016 10:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andy_scouser is currently offline  andy_scouser   United Kingdom
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(16) Barry Sheene
Quazi wrote on Thu, 02 June 2016 21:30
Out, and slam the fucking door behind us. Thumbs Up


lol, this smile

I really cant think of a valid reason to stay. Although, i worry for the remaining countries of Europe.
Re: EU - IN or OUT [message #294988 is a reply to message #294968] Thu, 09 June 2016 23:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the beer hunter is currently offline  the beer hunter   United Kingdom
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(17) Kevin Schwantz
I'm voting in.
I do work for Airbus which is a European company so I'm voting to remain 'as is'
Ask me again in 9 years & I may not give a fck.
Re: EU - IN or OUT [message #295031 is a reply to message #294988] Tue, 14 June 2016 00:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DrMartin is currently offline  DrMartin   United Kingdom
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(18) Geoff Duke
So the President of the EU is now saying that Britain leaving may destroy Western civilisation RollEyes

http://stv.tv/news/politics/1357280-eu-president-brexit-may- destroy-western-civilisation/

Well here's a newsflash Mr President: the EU already HAS destroyed Western civilisation by throwing its doors wide open to the entire middle east and most of Africa!

Twat!





Re: EU - IN or OUT [message #295048 is a reply to message #295031] Tue, 14 June 2016 23:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
EU gravy train brigade are getting worried now with the reality UK might well be on for leaving so getting desparate with their less than beleivable stories.

one of three things that I think will happen if the vote is LEAVE

1) Doubtful this one but I can hope - They'll realise the writings on the wall as far as constant EU expansion numbers (seriusly Turkey wtf?) and never ceasing with their forging ahead with ever closer integration of laws and regulations. Heavon forbid they perhaps may even come round the idea a trading bloc/common market doesn't have to mean a US of Europe which will never work as Europeons are too diverse for it to work (USSR a good example) and this is 2016 not 1700-1900 in the United States
2) More likely - they'll offer concesions to UK and probably all conuntries that stay in that perhaps if they wish not to adopt rule/law X then thats that, no need. This is what I'll call freedom of choice/demoncracy per nation rather than current system whereby if 18 countires say YES to law X & 4 say NO, tough luck on those 4, your over-ruled which is I suspect were a lot of the anti-democratic feeling comes down to.
3) They'll let the UK leave but be bastards when it comes to negociating trade agreements as a leason to any others even though in practice at least between EU and UK these should be easy as they should be be as before - they might well fuck this up if they take this stance and it'll get messy not only for UK but EU too and that would more likely lead to more dis-enchantment in other nations

5) a New one, the UK and other strong western nations start their own trading bloc, keep it simple and out do the over beureucratic EU



[Updated on: Tue, 14 June 2016 23:44]

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Re: EU - IN or OUT [message #295060 is a reply to message #295048] Wed, 15 June 2016 12:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DrMartin is currently offline  DrMartin   United Kingdom
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(18) Geoff Duke
Where is it written that if we vote to leave we actually do leave?

AFAIK all we are being given is the opportunity to express an opinion. However I still think it's worth expressing that opinion and if nothing else, the debate has raised a few people's awareness.



Re: EU - IN or OUT [message #295061 is a reply to message #295060] Wed, 15 June 2016 13:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andy_scouser is currently offline  andy_scouser   United Kingdom
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(16) Barry Sheene
The remanians have today said that if we leave the EU, both my legs will fall off, how the fuck am i going to be able to ride my bike after that..... im not risking it, im in in in.
Re: EU - IN or OUT [message #295062 is a reply to message #295061] Wed, 15 June 2016 14:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DrMartin is currently offline  DrMartin   United Kingdom
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(18) Geoff Duke
andy_scouser wrote on Wed, 15 June 2016 13:14
The remanians have today said that if we leave the EU, both my legs will fall off, how the fuck am i going to be able to ride my bike after that..... im not risking it, im in in in.


It's a fair point Yes Thumbs Up

Re: EU - IN or OUT [message #295073 is a reply to message #294893] Thu, 16 June 2016 18:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kakugo is currently offline  Kakugo   Italy
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(18) Geoff Duke
I usually don't care about conspiracy theorists, but they have more than a point about what happened today.
Re: EU - IN or OUT [message #295082 is a reply to message #295073] Thu, 16 June 2016 22:53 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Pipe is currently offline  Pipe   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
Kakugo wrote on Thu, 16 June 2016 18:41
I usually don't care about conspiracy theorists, but they have more than a point about what happened today.



And if Italy has a referendum .... What would you vote?

Italy out of Europe?

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