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Re: 250 Nighthawk [message #298952 is a reply to message #298877] Sun, 04 February 2018 15:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gragson is currently offline  Gragson   United Kingdom
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Got the tank drained, bit of a challenging shape, even drained off on reserve leaves load of fuel in - it stunk of varnish!
Have one of those big oil syringes and that got the last of it out, flush with fresh fuel and happy with that, tank is actually in good nick internally.
Old plugs swapped - here goes..... Started pretty much second prod on the starter, well happy Grin Really quiet smooth engine !

What I did not bargain for was the amount of water in the exhausts which sprayed out on bliping the throttle! need to drop those to deal with that.


Is there a resource that shows what Honda parts were shared between models? Like a parts lookup?
There is stuff like the headlamp surround / front mudguard and other parts on this bike which are beyond salvage
I have one for older Kawasaki's which is invaluable as you can broaden your parts search between models.

Cheers
Chris

https://image.ibb.co/fKowYx/IMG_1764.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/bvWB0c/IMG_1765.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/g0c10c/IMG_1766.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/gQhemH/IMG_1768.jpg

[Updated on: Sun, 04 February 2018 15:48]

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Re: 250 Nighthawk [message #298953 is a reply to message #298952] Sun, 04 February 2018 16:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
Can't argue with second press on the starter and it fires, thats a good omen Thumbs Up

re parts cross reference. Try this site, its quite good prior to ebay searches for parts common to other models so long as you know the part number and omit the - dashes

https://www.bike-parts-honda.com/microfiches-recherche_piece .html

[Updated on: Sun, 04 February 2018 16:20]

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Re: 250 Nighthawk [message #298954 is a reply to message #298953] Sun, 04 February 2018 17:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gragson is currently offline  Gragson   United Kingdom
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Cheers Kermit, that is exactly what I was after !
Re: 250 Nighthawk [message #298959 is a reply to message #298952] Mon, 05 February 2018 08:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yorkie is currently offline  Yorkie   United Kingdom
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(8) Moto2 GP Racer
Gragson wrote on Sun, 04 February 2018 15:45
Got the tank drained, bit of a challenging shape, even drained off on reserve leaves load of fuel in - it stunk of varnish!
Have one of those big oil syringes and that got the last of it out, flush with fresh fuel and happy with that, tank is actually in good nick internally.
Old plugs swapped - here goes..... Started pretty much second prod on the starter, well happy Grin Really quiet smooth engine !

What I did not bargain for was the amount of water in the exhausts which sprayed out on bliping the throttle! need to drop those to deal with that.


Is there a resource that shows what Honda parts were shared between models? Like a parts lookup?
There is stuff like the headlamp surround / front mudguard and other parts on this bike which are beyond salvage
I have one for older Kawasaki's which is invaluable as you can broaden your parts search between models.

Cheers
Chris

https://image.ibb.co/fKowYx/IMG_1764.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/bvWB0c/IMG_1765.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/g0c10c/IMG_1766.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/gQhemH/IMG_1768.jpg


'kin ell, you obviously like a challenge eek

Re: 250 Nighthawk [message #298969 is a reply to message #298877] Mon, 05 February 2018 20:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kakugo is currently offline  Kakugo   Italy
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(18) Geoff Duke
You could try searching for a Honda EPC (Electronic Parts Catalog) on eBay: they are rather cheap these days... partly because they haven't been updated since 2009 and partly because they only run on 32-bit operating systems. Confused
If you have a 32-bit operating system it may be a worthwhile investment, but bear in mind Honda (like pretty much any manufacturer) won't list parts and models available outside Europe and the US where something long discontinued can be readily available.

One thing I suggest you do quickly there is to check if there's any rust affecting vital parts in more than cosmetic fashion: mild steel will rot away in rather catastrophic way, as many ST1100 owners found out.

Re: 250 Nighthawk [message #298995 is a reply to message #298969] Fri, 09 February 2018 20:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gragson is currently offline  Gragson   United Kingdom
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Bugger all progress due to a 43SL being given to me and needing a complete engine, carb and commissioning strip down. Now purring and cutting like new, lick of paint to boo. Also got given a seized & knackered record No6 that I couldn't leave alone..

@ Yorkie, would love to say I've taken on worse, but bike wise, not quite Grin
@ Kakugo, I'm now watching an EPC on ebay for £15, if I get it will make copies which I can dish out I hope if anyone wants one.

Re rotting / structural failure, main thing here is the frame and engine mounts as a stressed member and all corrosion there is thankfully superficial, no need for an of my piss poor welding!, 50% of the fasteners tho are shit house and will have to be replaced and some ground off like captive nuts on parts that I will not have patience for.. Front forks and front break may cost money - I will see.

The good progress news for me is that this weekend the CB gets promoted to the bike lift as I move bikes, mowers and other crap out of my tiny garage, then strip down in ernest.

Re: 250 Nighthawk [message #298996 is a reply to message #298995] Fri, 09 February 2018 21:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gragson is currently offline  Gragson   United Kingdom
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A 43SL is not a Merc by the way Laugh and a record No6 is a big chunky vice - off topic - wrong forum - CB news next weekend I hope Thumbs Up

https://image.ibb.co/kzqnmH/43SL.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/gxK2Lc/Vice.jpg

Re: 250 Nighthawk [message #298997 is a reply to message #298996] Fri, 09 February 2018 21:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
Nice mower Thumbs Up I guess your a traditionalist, have a nice flat lawn and like stripes.

2 control levers, is it self propelled?
Re: 250 Nighthawk [message #299002 is a reply to message #298877] Sat, 10 February 2018 11:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kakugo is currently offline  Kakugo   Italy
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(18) Geoff Duke
Those cylinder mowers are incredibly sought after here in Italy and go for insane money... deeply ironic considering nowadays GGP, which is headquartered near Vicenza, is the largest manufacturer of cylinder mowers in Europe if not in the world (mostly sold through the ATCO brand).
I don't know which engine you got on it: Tecumseh manufactured part of those small four stroke themselves and part they had built by Asper Motors of Italy. The Italian-built Tecumseh have a well deserved reputation for being horrible sorry little things and, if the original tags are gone, the only way to tell them apart is the carburetor: Tillotson, Tecumseh, Dell'Orto, Asper. Albeit it's possible over the years there has been some mix and matching of parts... think
Re: 250 Nighthawk [message #299004 is a reply to message #299002] Sat, 10 February 2018 17:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gragson is currently offline  Gragson   United Kingdom
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Reality is I don't have a good lawn for a cylinder jobbie, its big enough but the undulations cause my rotary enough grief but I couldn't bear to see it go down the skip.
Reason it was going for free was it literally would not move virtually everything was seized. The grass collector is bloody massive!
4 weeks later with the help of a mower forum (there's a forum for everything) and a downloaded service manual it was all back together and working
The motor is an A98 which may have been in house or Tecumseh, the later aluminium head type so may not be manufactured by Suffolk.
This one has a Dell'Orto which pissed itself as soon as fuel was introduced, again everything blocked, but survived the strip and ultra-sonic bath.
Surprising they are so sought after in Italy, you can pick up Suffolk, Atco etc of the mass prod type like the 43 for literally nothing if they are in poor shape.


Re: 250 Nighthawk [message #299031 is a reply to message #299004] Sun, 18 February 2018 23:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gragson is currently offline  Gragson   Netherlands
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No space Sad

https://image.ibb.co/jLauGS/IMG_1856.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/cERei7/IMG_1861.jpg
Re: 250 Nighthawk [message #299032 is a reply to message #299031] Sun, 18 February 2018 23:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gragson is currently offline  Gragson   Netherlands
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Little progress on the CB due to life and work getting in the way, spending only 1-2 days a week in the country lately does not help.., main issue is ive not managed to move stuff out of my teeny garage to get it on the bike lift.

So far, oil, plugs, serious bodge to salvage exhaust, and a bit of cosmetic work - glacial even by my snails pace standards.

Quick look at front break woes shows the master cylinder piston seized in and one of the caliper mounting bolts head sheared off, measure with the mic shows front disc to be down to 3.1, min being 3.5, not surprising for a 47k little bike I guess.

What I have found surprising is how scarce and costly 2nd hand parts are (and mainly rubbish at that), obviously not a big import of these into the uk? Also noticed this bike does not have exhaust balance pipe which certainly appear original, all other 250 night hawk zorsts ive seen have the balance pipe?

I keep having to remind myself that this is a fix up and ride, not a restoration, but the duct taped front indicators will have to go, and will have to strip and paint headlight rim or one of these cheapies, guess park light not needed for MOT?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/7-Black-Round-Motorcycle-Headlamp- Headlight-Unit/190711889862?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&am p;_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

When it goes on the lift, comp test and valve adj 1st , as good as it starts and quiet as it is I am weary on the numbers given the mileage

Re: 250 Nighthawk [message #299035 is a reply to message #299032] Mon, 19 February 2018 09:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kakugo is currently offline  Kakugo   Italy
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(18) Geoff Duke
Gragson wrote on Mon, 19 February 2018 00:15
Little progress on the CB due to life and work getting in the way, spending only 1-2 days a week in the country lately does not help.., main issue is ive not managed to move stuff out of my teeny garage to get it on the bike lift.

So far, oil, plugs, serious bodge to salvage exhaust, and a bit of cosmetic work - glacial even by my snails pace standards.

Quick look at front break woes shows the master cylinder piston seized in and one of the caliper mounting bolts head sheared off, measure with the mic shows front disc to be down to 3.1, min being 3.5, not surprising for a 47k little bike I guess.

What I have found surprising is how scarce and costly 2nd hand parts are (and mainly rubbish at that), obviously not a big import of these into the uk? Also noticed this bike does not have exhaust balance pipe which certainly appear original, all other 250 night hawk zorsts ive seen have the balance pipe?

I keep having to remind myself that this is a fix up and ride, not a restoration, but the duct taped front indicators will have to go, and will have to strip and paint headlight rim or one of these cheapies, guess park light not needed for MOT?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/7-Black-Round-Motorcycle-Headlamp- Headlight-Unit/190711889862?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&am p;am p;_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

When it goes on the lift, comp test and valve adj 1st , as good as it starts and quiet as it is I am weary on the numbers given the mileage

If there's no balance pipe it's an aftermarket exhaust, most likely a Motad. Genuine Honda ones from that time frame had a nasty tendency of rotting away fast. Thumb Down

That bike was officially imported in some European countries (France and Spain to name but two) but failed to sell in meaningful numbers, meaning used parts are few and far between.

Indicators are the same as used at the rear of early (1987-1990) CBR600F's and a search for those should reveal a few reasonably priced aftermarket parts. At most it's just a matter of wiring, which is easily and cheaply solved.

If you have more questions, ask: I am in a bit of a hurry right now and will answer later.
Re: 250 Nighthawk [message #299081 is a reply to message #299035] Wed, 28 February 2018 18:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gragson is currently offline  Gragson   United Kingdom
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Interesting one on the exhaust, it is actually genuine, once I got through all the surface rust and crap, could see someone had done a pretty decent job of welding over where the balance pipe would have been, I guess it had just rotted through and they decided to blank it off both sides. As good as the job is, it will be far more susceptible to rust there as its bear steel. Looks good for now tho.
Re: 250 Nighthawk [message #299082 is a reply to message #299081] Wed, 28 February 2018 18:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gragson is currently offline  Gragson   United Kingdom
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The headlamp rim fared badly in my wee sandblaster, was expecting the chrome to flake away as it was so pitted but the rusting went right through at the bottom leaving some fairly large holes
Filled, sanded and painted black, it certainly dos not look OE but far better than scrapping it.
Re: 250 Nighthawk [message #299083 is a reply to message #299082] Wed, 28 February 2018 19:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gragson is currently offline  Gragson   United Kingdom
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I've looked on CMSNL for a few parts, I've used them before for Kawasaki parts and they are nothing short of a rip off once tax and postage is added.
Not sure what Dutch is for go Fxxx yourself but they sure can - 70 for a headlamp rim....., Dave Silver is not as bad but do not have what I need to "salvage everything possible" is my MO right now.
Got some pattern indies, replaced loads of screws, bolts etc, made spacers and grommets, replaced loads of bulbs, so getting on with little things.
Determined to get it on the bike stand this weekend for the major stuff.
Will post some pics later
Re: 250 Nighthawk [message #299084 is a reply to message #299083] Wed, 28 February 2018 23:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gragson is currently offline  Gragson   Netherlands
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Looking a lot cleaner (down one side)
Happier with the body work and dash/lights all working now.
Lots to do, but its not a restore (note to self) Grin

https://preview.ibb.co/emSn2c/IMG_1867.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/ivuBTH/IMG_1876.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/fueBTH/IMG_1883.jpg
https://preview.ibb.co/hdpBTH/IMG_1885.jpg

[Updated on: Wed, 28 February 2018 23:19]

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Re: 250 Nighthawk [message #299085 is a reply to message #299084] Thu, 01 March 2018 19:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
Looking much better, was wondering how you'd tackle the chrome but black looks almost standard Thumbs Up

Re: 250 Nighthawk [message #299090 is a reply to message #298877] Fri, 02 March 2018 12:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kakugo is currently offline  Kakugo   Italy
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(18) Geoff Duke
If you have a look at where Honda spare parts have gone in the last four-five years... it goes a good way to understand why their sales in Europe have been in freefall for years. To make matters worse it takes people minutes to find out many genuine parts in the US and Japan are ridiculously cheap by our standards.
David Silver can usually beat dealerships because they buy in bulk from either outside the EU (Thailand for example) or old stocks dealerships don't want anymore. They actually have an agreement with Honda Europe to sell parts only for bikes at least a decade old, but as EU competition laws move forward that agreement will have to be renegotiated.

Regardless, one thing I forgot to tell you to check is clutch functionality. You may notice the clutch is a bit "lazy" to operate. The cause is usually the cable binding somewhere inside its wrapping. You may try putting either a good penetrating oil (my brother uses a gunsmith oil) or "Sperm whale oil substitute" (90% ATF and 10% pure acetone in volume) but if that doesn't work a brand new pattern cable will solve the issue.

Now if you'll excuse me I need to prepare myself for dealing with an old poor starting Honda GX engine (my bet is on the carburetor in need of attention) and even older Suzuki GSX1100F with a fork and/or wheel issue.
Why do I get myself into this... Pray
Re: 250 Nighthawk [message #299095 is a reply to message #299085] Fri, 02 March 2018 23:25 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Gragson is currently offline  Gragson   United Kingdom
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Kermit wrote on Thu, 01 March 2018 19:24
Looking much better, was wondering how you'd tackle the chrome but black looks almost standard Thumbs Up

That parts site you posted has been very useful, got some exhaust collets cheap by doing a parts match Thumbs Up
The originals had turned to dust, not even tried to pick out the gaskets yet but ordered them too.
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