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Re: Kinda funny [message #300972 is a reply to message #300936] Mon, 15 July 2019 07:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kakugo is currently offline  Kakugo   Italy
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(18) Geoff Duke
It's funny you say that because Honda's "sports" heated grips are probably the best I've ever had. Far better than the old Oxford-supplied horrors. Wink

BMW bikes are generally designed with a lot of feedback from dealerships and sometimes you also get a questionaire from them to fill about how to improve their bikes. Honda has not done that in fifteen years or so. Apparently they know better than everybody else.
In the aviation industry that's called the Concorde Syndrome, meaning designing a product with no input from end users and then being surprised nobody wants it.
Re: Kinda funny [message #300973 is a reply to message #300972] Mon, 15 July 2019 21:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slaz is currently offline  slaz   United Kingdom
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(21) Valentino Rossi
Phew,thanks ;-)
Re: Kinda funny [message #300988 is a reply to message #300973] Sat, 20 July 2019 23:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Pipe is currently offline  Pipe   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
Suzuki man here all my teenage years, probably borne out of my admiration for Barry Sheene, Randy Mamola and then Kevin Schwantz.

Sometimes with Schwantz, you couldn't actually believe he just did that on 2 wheels! He was the 80's Marc Marquez, massive talent but just not focussed on the goal so much as Marquez is.

I did have the obligatory RD350LC just because ... well, you had to didn't you?

So that was my early years until the Fireblade came out and once I had rode one I was hooked.

That wasn't because Mick Doohan or Wayne Gardener particularly inspired me, it was just a cutting edge bike but it soon lost its battle to the R1 and it hasn't really ever regained it since.

So when Honda went into their 8 year 2008 model with no changes I was looking and the R1 was still there at the cutting edge .. never looked back since.

Strange, I have never like Kawasaki's and its the only Japanese manufacturer that I have never owned a bike from????????... maybe its the name? Maybe they have never had a 'hero' I don't know quite what it is.

If Honda bought out a nice V4 at an affordable cost and we are talking 30k I guess to rival Ducati at the moment ... then maybe?

The game has not changed at all ... the best power the best handling the best power to weight ... when was it any different except for we now have electronics?

And Honda are still behind the nine ball ....

Let's face it an RCV213S cant win the TT with Padgetts and Bruce Anstey behind it ...A real strange comparison I know as its a particular track but even so.

[Updated on: Sat, 20 July 2019 23:06]

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Re: Kinda funny [message #300990 is a reply to message #300936] Sun, 21 July 2019 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kakugo is currently offline  Kakugo   Italy
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(18) Geoff Duke
Honda racers have long been extremely hard to tune without full backing from Japan.
I think the last Honda racer that could be fine-tuned to be competitive without some measure of factory backing was the 1990 CR125 two-stroke MX bike. In fact it was so successful and sold so well that Honda kept it unchanged (apart from flip-flopping from Kayaba to Showa suspensions and back) until 1995. Later models could be made to handle well thanks to excellent frames but by 1998 the engine had become so outdated it could not be made competitive without factory backing, and even then don't expect miracles. How they kept that engine in service until 2007 without adding pedals for extra power is beyond me. Laugh

I don't know what kind of backing Padgetts has received from Honda for their RC213V-S racer, but my take is not much. And I shudder to think how hard that bike must be to work on. Confused
Re: Kinda funny [message #300994 is a reply to message #300990] Mon, 22 July 2019 20:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pecker is currently offline  pecker   United Kingdom
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(11) MotoGP Podium Finisher
I grew up in the two stroke era, Air cooled RDs/ castrol R/Allspeeds and Avon road runners, Stayed with Yamaha for a long time on and off road with TY Trials bikes
Sheen and Schwantz was my Favs but never dreamed of a Suzuki
When i came back to road riding the Blade was the Bike, had a few of them up to the 954 before going away from Sportsbikes on the road, apart from Yam XT and a KTM Supermoto stuck with Honda up until the last one the Crosstourer which i loved riding, the V4 motor was great but it was too heavy and mates had Ducatis and BMWs - more Road focused Adventure bikes and i was overriding the big old Crosstourer to keep with them, so i have jumped ship Blush
Like i said earlier i still have the old 929 which gets this old man round a track briskly and still puts a smile on my face and cost me only tyres/petrol and service items ( next year i think i could even race it in a vintage class eek )

[Updated on: Mon, 22 July 2019 20:56]

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Re: Kinda funny [message #300995 is a reply to message #300990] Mon, 22 July 2019 22:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WD   Netherlands
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(8) Moto2 GP Racer
Kakugo wrote on Sun, 21 July 2019 11:55
Honda racers have long been extremely hard to tune without full backing from Japan.
I think the last Honda racer that could be fine-tuned to be competitive without some measure of factory backing was the 1990 CR125 two-stroke MX bike. In fact it was so successful and sold so well that Honda kept it unchanged (apart from flip-flopping from Kayaba to Showa suspensions and back) until 1995. Later models could be made to handle well thanks to excellent frames but by 1998 the engine had become so outdated it could not be made competitive without factory backing, and even then don't expect miracles. How they kept that engine in service until 2007 without adding pedals for extra power is beyond me. Laugh

I don't know what kind of backing Padgetts has received from Honda for their RC213V-S racer, but my take is not much. And I shudder to think how hard that bike must be to work on. Confused
I think you hit the nail on the head there Kak.

Another example of Honda's not working without full backing from Japan. Look at Edwards in WSBK in 2002.

Couldn't win (except for Japan where Troy had some shit results and the UK where Troy fell in the wet) a race until he (and Honda, Daijiro Kato) won the Suzuka 8 hour. All of a sudden there's all these trick parts for the SP2 and et voila he's unstoppable. (Though hew started winning from the US onwards after Suzuka he was on a different planet. Especially at Assen. HE was miles ahead. Ther even switched to a double exhaust from the single-sided they were running )
Re: Kinda funny [message #301003 is a reply to message #300995] Tue, 23 July 2019 11:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kakugo is currently offline  Kakugo   Italy
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(18) Geoff Duke
WD wrote on Mon, 22 July 2019 23:44
Kakugo wrote on Sun, 21 July 2019 11:55
Honda racers have long been extremely hard to tune without full backing from Japan.
I think the last Honda racer that could be fine-tuned to be competitive without some measure of factory backing was the 1990 CR125 two-stroke MX bike. In fact it was so successful and sold so well that Honda kept it unchanged (apart from flip-flopping from Kayaba to Showa suspensions and back) until 1995. Later models could be made to handle well thanks to excellent frames but by 1998 the engine had become so outdated it could not be made competitive without factory backing, and even then don't expect miracles. How they kept that engine in service until 2007 without adding pedals for extra power is beyond me. Laugh

I don't know what kind of backing Padgetts has received from Honda for their RC213V-S racer, but my take is not much. And I shudder to think how hard that bike must be to work on. Confused
I think you hit the nail on the head there Kak.

Another example of Honda's not working without full backing from Japan. Look at Edwards in WSBK in 2002.

Couldn't win (except for Japan where Troy had some shit results and the UK where Troy fell in the wet) a race until he (and Honda, Daijiro Kato) won the Suzuka 8 hour. All of a sudden there's all these trick parts for the SP2 and et voila he's unstoppable. (Though hew started winning from the US onwards after Suzuka he was on a different planet. Especially at Assen. HE was miles ahead. Ther even switched to a double exhaust from the single-sided they were running )
I am saying this as a former owner: the VTR-SP has been one of Honda's worst duds. It was hard to set up properly, had some of the worst stock suspensions this side of the 80's, the only two parts of the HRC kit worth anything were the quick action throttle and the "B" brake pads and had some very un-Honda issues, such as an unnerving albeit apparently harmless tendency to score the rear cylinder. Confused
It's one of those bikes that if I could go back in time I would prevent my past self from buying by any means necessary. No Finger

Honda has always kept the strictest secrecy on the works VTR-SP, the same kind they kept on works 500GP and early MotoGP bikes before the present TV-friendly rules came in being. The only thing I can say for certain is the frame was heavily altered around the front engine mounting points: period rules allowed this, albeit if Honda did this to change handling characteristics or because the works engine required different attachment points I cannot say.
The radiators used on works bikes were definetely not standard kit items and a few years back it was discovered Honda had a series of full exhausts made by Endurance of Japan (a company controlled by HRC) to mate to different engine maps, I suspect to tame mid-range a bit. If you pay close attention you'll see on slower tracks the silencers stick out from the back of the bike considerably more than on fast tracks. Wink

Re: Kinda funny [message #301035 is a reply to message #301003] Fri, 09 August 2019 14:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Swiss T   United Kingdom
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(16) Barry Sheene
Hey fellas.

A Triumph & a couple of Ducati's here.

Not had a Honda since my last blade around 4 years ago.

Hope everyone is well Cool Cool
Re: Kinda funny [message #301036 is a reply to message #301035] Fri, 09 August 2019 19:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
Swiss eek

I'm good, hope your well too although I guess still having a respectable stable of bikes that's should be the case.

Good to hear from you Thumbs Up

[Updated on: Fri, 09 August 2019 19:30]

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Re: Kinda funny [message #301051 is a reply to message #301036] Tue, 13 August 2019 10:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Swiss T   United Kingdom
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(16) Barry Sheene
Thanks Si.

I do pop in now & again. Its nice to see so many folk still involved.

Thumbs Up
Re: Kinda funny [message #301061 is a reply to message #300936] Wed, 14 August 2019 06:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kakugo is currently offline  Kakugo   Italy
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(18) Geoff Duke
Oy Swiss. Still in Stockport?
Hope everything is well.
Re: Kinda funny [message #301068 is a reply to message #301061] Wed, 14 August 2019 16:34 Go to previous message
Swiss T   United Kingdom
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(16) Barry Sheene
Yes pal; not so sunny at the moment though Confused
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