Honda-Forums.com
Home » General » Restores, Rebuilds and Tart ups. » Kerms XR250R Project
Kerms XR250R Project [message #174591] Sun, 07 September 2008 12:22 Go to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
Messages: 23998
Registered: June 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Karma: 39
(22) Giacomo Agostini
augh" />

index.php?t=getfile&id=16331&private=0index.php?t=getfile&id=16330&private=0

Plan on taking out inlet valves in morning and starting the process of cleaning up the valves and lapping them in.

Question ( Does it matter which valve goes back in which hole ) Obviously Exhausts go in Exhaust and Inlet in Inlet sides but was thinking it can't be that critical as if I was replacing them they would go in where ever i put them.

Obviously once lapped in I would imagine they need to stay in their pared holes.

SPal Ideally, you want to re-insert the valves back into their original positions, because the wear characteristics will be the same for both valve stem and valve guide.

That is of course unless to fancy measuring them all instead. smile Cheers Quazi,

I was watching clip on valve lapping (on you tube) and guy said they should be left overnight with head upside down, with some kind of fluid in each chamber. ( thats not what I meant but hopefully you'll know what I'm getting at).

Then, next day check to make sure none has made way past valve.

Now in all the years I've watched car heads being re valved I've never seen any mechanic do this.

Is it really nessecary?

If so, what fluid do I use?

SPal Hi All,

Continued pulling valves out tonight, was terified I'd loose a collet as they are tiny.

Stripped head of all valves and continued to clean carbon off with solvent.

index.php?t=getfile&id=16332&private=0

THis is great stuff as when sprayed on and left for about 5 mins it cleans really well,

Quick rub over with scowering pad and a wipe off with cloth and all traces of carbon gone.

Finally found what I thought must be there but couldn't see - Valve stem oil seals.

index.php?t=getfile&id=16333&private=0

Does anyone know if a special tool is required to refit? - THey are a long way down a hole and although should be easy enough to remove with long nose pliers I don't want to damage new ones when I fit.

SPal

Tommorrow is lapping day. hi al you can use nose pliers to remove the old one's Thumbs Up

push the new one's on with you finger or thumb or something that wont damage the seal (plastic or wood)if its deep down as there not that tight and apply engine oil to the valve when re-inserting smile Yep, slip it in like a 40 year marriage. smile Quazi wrote on Sun, 11 July 2010 13:56
Yep, slip it in like a 40 year marriage. smile



thanks for that image mike Laugh
It'll be like throwing a sausag
Re: Kerm's XR250R (possible project) [message #174593 is a reply to message #174591] Sun, 07 September 2008 13:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bladecrazy is currently offline  bladecrazy   United Kingdom
Messages: 217
Registered: June 2003
Location: bolton
Karma: 0
(4) WSS Racer
e up Regent Street Wink Thanks All,

The visualisation is oh too clear.

Have any of you had experience o
Re: Kerm's XR250R (possible project) [message #174594 is a reply to message #174593] Sun, 07 September 2008 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SP2 Riley is currently offline  SP2 Riley   United Kingdom
Messages: 8266
Registered: January 2008
Location: peterborough
Karma: 12
(19) John Surtees
f after market gasket sets ? I've seen a couple on ebay for RRN as below.

index.php?t=getfile&id=16336&private=0

Re: Kerm's XR250R (possible project) [message #174605 is a reply to message #174593] Sun, 07 September 2008 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
Messages: 23998
Registered: June 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Karma: 39
(22) Giacomo Agostini
They go for about £110.00 ish. Now when they say "Full" I don't know if they mean "Full" Top or "Full Engine" as Honda OEM top is £157.00 +vat and bottom 73.00 + vat.

Even if its only a top set theres a £40.00 saving, but I don't want to get if there going to be crap.

Any thoughts? (in my experience) some After Market stuff offeres good value over OEM and some needs to be well steered clear of.

SPal email the seller al for clarification Thumbs Up DrMartin wrote on Sun, 11 July 2010 15:22
It'll be like throwing a sausage up Regent Street Wink


ffs not heard that one you old bugger Laugh
Hi Riley,

Yeah will do, the add had his phone number but as I only appear able to search ebay in the middle of the night thought best not to call @ 03:00,

I was getting @ whether there could be any problems with not going OEM.

Are all gaskets the same quality?

I was going to say I'd be right pissed off if after say a year the head gasket went cause it was a cheep copy, but I supose that would apply to any of the gaskets I'd have to re split the cases to change.

Was going to say I don't feel I've accomplished much today:

Completed Fork Rebuild & refitted to yokes ( just to keep them safe).

Cleaned up head, I have thought about all the comments regarding this rebuild and as the priority is getting it rebuilt (as a runner) I have decided not to start polishing or porting or anything else.

Good clean up and leave alone.

index.php?t=getfile&id=16337&private=0

Happy with how head came up, only things left to do now are:

Remove old Valve stem oil seals
Lap in Valves
Remove two last exhaust studs (the stubborn ones)
Take head to bike shop to see if broken thread can be removed. (although its fully functional with cut down stud, I thought if its not too much cash to get head sorted I would be happier knowing its all been done properly.)

Unless anyone can see anything in the pic I need to spend more time on.

Hopefully can get that lot done tommorrow, when, with a bit of luck flywheel puller will have arrived and I can complete the strip down of the bottom end.

Completed "boxing up" all ancillary items that have either been cleaned or are going for blasting & refin
Re: Kerm's XR250R (possible project) [message #174606 is a reply to message #174605] Sun, 07 September 2008 17:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SP2 Riley is currently offline  SP2 Riley   United Kingdom
Messages: 8266
Registered: January 2008
Location: peterborough
Karma: 12
(19) John Surtees
ishing. Should have been more methodical and done this as I went along.

(oh well will know for next time)

Oh, forgot, I ordered Sealy Valve spring compressor kit off ebay last night, don't know why I spent so long running round and just didn't order it in the first
Re: Kerm's XR250R (possible project) [message #174612 is a reply to message #174606] Sun, 07 September 2008 17:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RWB929 is currently offline  RWB929   United Kingdom
Messages: 4327
Registered: June 2003
Location: Edge of the Forest - Suff...
Karma: 3
(13) MotoGP Champion
place. Only £5 more than the one I bought (which was the wrong one).

SPal Laugh Laugh Laugh <
Re: Kerm's XR250R (possible project) [message #174704 is a reply to message #174612] Mon, 08 September 2008 18:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GIZZY BEAR is currently offline  GIZZY BEAR   United Kingdom
Messages: 5005
Registered: June 2003
Location: Dudley
Karma: 3
(14) Eddie Lawson
img src="images/smiley_icons/icon_lol.gif" border="0" alt="Laugh" /> Laugh

im sure the gaskets will be fine mate Thumbs Up

your doing a good job on that Thumbs Up
Re: Kerm's XR250R (possible project) [message #174733 is a reply to message #174612] Mon, 08 September 2008 20:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
Messages: 23998
Registered: June 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Karma: 39
(22) Giacomo Agostini
/> Thanks Riley,

Am pleased with how its gone, so far, must say takin apart has never been a problem for me.

Am concerned about the putting back together, particularily the timimg, seen a few lumps where it went wrong, lots of bendy bendy things. Dont want to go there/

SPal eek SPAL wrote on Sun, 11 July 2010 22:30
Thanks Riley,

Am pleased with how its gone, so far, must say takin apart has never been a problem for me.

Am concerned about the putting back together, particularily the timimg, seen a few lumps where it went wrong, lots of bendy bendy things. Dont want to go there/

SPal eek



timing it will be fine as its on the bench so very easy Thumbs Up

the thing your going to have to be careful with is tightening things correctly and torque settings.

use oil on all moving parts like the main bearings con rods cams etc Thumbs Up

all the seals fitted the right way round and again a smear of oil

double check everything and that way your covering everthing.

and when you have checked your work twice check it again smile
when i was a lad and working on my fizzy, i used to use a kellogs corn flake box as my head gaskets.... not so sure that would be a good idea on the blade though ;-)andy_scouser wrote on Mon, 12 July 2010 11:35
when i was a lad and working on my fizzy, i used to use a kellogs corn flake box as my head gaskets.... not so sure that would be a good idea on the blade though ;-)



brilliant adapt and overcome Laugh Thumbs Up
andy_scouser wrote on Mon, 12 July 2010 11:35
when i was a lad and working on my fizzy, i used to use a kellogs corn flake box as my head gaskets.... not so sure that would be a good idea on the blade though ;-)


Were you also one of those who "skimmed the head" on the pavement? Laugh There were a fair few around my way Laugh Hi All,

As today was valve lapping day, you guessed it, I overslept, day gone.

checked out "full engine gasket set" on ebay and it was what it said on the tin, Just Gaskets.

I figure out that although it probably will save me money overall, the fact that I'll have to source all the other bits like oil seals etc will be a pain in the arse and I imagine, that the cost of a Gasket set from Honda will be cheeper than the added up prices of each bit thats in it.

Plus, went to local Honda dealer today, who confirmed they will give me 10% discount all ALL parts I buy, not just gasket sets as previously discussed (every little helps), <
Re: Kerm's XR250R (possible project) [message #174739 is a reply to message #174733] Mon, 08 September 2008 20:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
streeky is currently offline  streeky   France
Messages: 10476
Registered: June 2003
Location: RIP Streeky
Karma: 6
(21) Valentino Rossi
br />
Bought swinging arm bush, but as you can see from pic I should have been more thorough when disassembling as only found when went to put back together Pin is fucked.....

index.php?t=getfile&id=16342&private=0

Went
Re: Kerm's XR250R (possible project) [message #174741 is a reply to message #174739] Mon, 08 September 2008 21:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SP2 Riley is currently offline  SP2 Riley   United Kingdom
Messages: 8266
Registered: January 2008
Location: peterborough
Karma: 12
(19) John Surtees
into local bike shop to sound him out on cost of fitting helicoil to sheared exhaust stud hole ( Quoted £30.00) which I thought was ok, so will be dropping him head and sump (to be welded) over next few
Re: Kerm's XR250R (possible project) [message #174747 is a reply to message #174591] Mon, 08 September 2008 23:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
Messages: 23998
Registered: June 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Karma: 39
(22) Giacomo Agostini
days.

Glad I went in as he says best to wait until head ready to go back on before lapping valves in. (may be a valid point).

SPal

£30 sounds good to me. I'm too embarrased to tell you how much I got ripped off for by a Honda Dealer for a helicoil on one of my engine mounts. Suffice it to say that I've never been back there for anything.


Hi Dr M,

I supose I can see it fro
Re: Kerm's XR250R (possible project) [message #174748 is a reply to message #174591] Mon, 08 September 2008 23:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
Messages: 23998
Registered: June 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Karma: 39
(22) Giacomo Agostini
m both sides, obviously no-one wants to pay for a repair like this as its not improving anything, just putting it back to how it needs to be.

Most of the time the costs aren't the actual helicoiling its the stripping out of ancilaries to enable someone to get a drill near the hole you want repaired.

Having said that this head is off bike and therefore easy to get at hole, hate to think what it would have cost if it had needed doing with the engine in the frame.

Not sure if the holes on this head have been helicoiled before, there appears to be inserts on most
Re: Kerm's XR250R (possible project) [message #175088 is a reply to message #174591] Thu, 11 September 2008 20:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
Messages: 23998
Registered: June 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Karma: 39
(22) Giacomo Agostini
of the holes.

Pic shows the hole with the stud sheared in it (on right)

index.php?t=getfile&id=16350&private=0

Managed to get valve stem oil seals out, no problem, when I turned the head over a load of washers fell out, they do mate up with the oil seals, don't know if there part of the seal and will come in head kit or if I'll have to re use these ones.

index.php?t=getfile&id=16351&private=0

Lastly, saw my mate who lives in Wales this evening, who has agreed to collect SS bolts from Custom Fasteners (saves on more postage).

SPal Grin that thread does look like its been repaired

its a common thing on rebuilds to find a siezed bolt stud etc as steel and ally have a habit of fusing over time and then become impossible to remove (so strip the engine every 6 mths to prevent this) Wink Laugh you know you want to Thumbs Up Laugh

Re the steel bolt / ally thing. People say you shouldn't use coppaslip to assemble these two metals because it sets up an electro / chemical reaction and the ally corrodes. Well I've been doing it for years and never had a problem and never had a bolt sieze (or work loose) after being assembled in this way.

Just my experience ... it works for me so I do it Thumbs Up

Hi All,

Dropped off head & sump to bike shop this afternoon, he agreed that it looked as if hole had already had helicoil fitted and said that it could be that the bit @ the bottom, which should spread outwards to hold the helicoil in place hadn't, meaning the stud couldnt be wound fully home.

Didn't seam phased by this so see how he gets on.

As far as the copperslip goes, i was under the impression that the reaction happens if you don't use copperslip/grease and as Dr M says I've never had problems undoing bolts which have had copperslip used on them.

That reminds me something else for shopping list "industrial size coperslip"

SPal Laugh
Re: Kerm's XR250R (possible project) [message #175095 is a reply to message #175088] Thu, 11 September 2008 21:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
streeky is currently offline  streeky   France
Messages: 10476
Registered: June 2003
Location: RIP Streeky
Karma: 6
(21) Valentino Rossi
border="0" alt="Laugh" />
dont use copper slip on the head bolts al

i use it on just about everything and its just great stuffHi Riley,

Ok, why not ?

SPal eek Hi All,

As I was inconvenienced today by having to go to work, didn't get a lot done.

Still no puller to remove flywheel, so resorted to cleaning up case cover plates and checking out how many of each size of bolt I would need f
Re: Kerm's XR250R (possible project) [message #175096 is a reply to message #174591] Thu, 11 September 2008 21:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
slaz is currently offline  slaz   United Kingdom
Messages: 11781
Registered: March 2004
Location: Moved
Karma: 11
(21) Valentino Rossi
or the engine cases.

Will be emailing custom fasteners after these posts to see difference between collect and send prices as my mate who lives near them has agreed to collect if required.

index.</span>
		
		
		<div class=

Report message to a moderator

Re: Kerm's XR250R (possible project) [message #175097 is a reply to message #175088] Thu, 11 September 2008 21:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SP2 Riley is currently offline  SP2 Riley   United Kingdom
Messages: 8266
Registered: January 2008
Location: peterborough
Karma: 12
(19) John Surtees
php?t=getfile&id=16352&private=0" />

Stripped out generator windings to take to work for testing:

Re: Kerm's XR250R (possible project) [message #175105 is a reply to message #174591] Thu, 11 September 2008 22:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
Messages: 23998
Registered: June 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Karma: 39
(22) Giacomo Agostini
lt="index.php?t=getfile&id=16353&private=0" />

Generator casings of cbr9 (black) and cbr6 (silver) as both are pretty knackered think I will get new one from David Silver as if get coated will need to do clutch & timing covers or else engine will look like a patchwork.

More follows

SPal Continued,

Stripped down water pump and seperated cover plate from body. Will be asking finishing guy if anything can be done with body but I suspect I will have to paint, as blasting may knacker seals.

Pic of water pump body in place on block.

index.php?t=getfile&id=16354&private=0

Cleaned up water pump cover plate and union plate (which bolts to front of block), both have some signs of corrosion but hopefully will clean up and l
Re: Kerm's XR250R (possible project) [message #175109 is a reply to message #175105] Thu, 11 September 2008 22:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
streeky is currently offline  streeky   France
Messages: 10476
Registered: June 2003
Location: RIP Streeky
Karma: 6
(21) Valentino Rossi
ook ok when finished.

index.php?t=getfile&id=16355&private=0

Want to try and get block away to finishers by next
Re: Kerm's XR250R (possible project) [message #175110 is a reply to message #175109] Thu, 11 September 2008 22:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SP2 Riley is currently offline  SP2 Riley   United Kingdom
Messages: 8266
Registered: January 2008
Location: peterborough
Karma: 12
(19) John Surtees
week as theres a two week turnround. Also need to get parts ordered, (good job its payday today)

SPal Laugh Laugh My Blade's cases are like that on both sides Thumb Down

I looked everywhere for some stick-on protectors for them but couldn't find any.

I was quite surprised how little there was in terms of aftermarket bits and bobs for a 9
Re: Kerm's XR250R (possible project) [message #175155 is a reply to message #175110] Fri, 12 September 2008 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
dave-sp2 is currently offline  dave-sp2   United States
Messages: 636
Registered: August 2008
Location: brandon, suffolk
Karma: 0
(6) Moto1 GP Racer
8 Blade e.g. decent undertrays, tail pieces etc. Most stuff was for earlier or later models Sad Hi Dr M

David silver lists cbr600f generator caes for £32.00, its the same casing on an RRN as I've fitted the silver one which came off my 600f.

SPal

Was suprised when I saw price as I thought it would have been more. SPAL wrote on Tue, 13 July 2010 19:54
Hi Riley,
Previous Topic: Could not resist
Next Topic: Kerms CBR929
Goto Forum:
  

[ PDF ]

Current Time: Thu Dec 03 16:27:26 GMT 2020

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.03479 seconds