Honda-Forums.com
Home » General » Technical Help » To buy or not to buy, that is the question
To buy or not to buy, that is the question [message #301557] Sat, 21 December 2019 12:06 Go to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
Messages: 24124
Registered: June 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Karma: 43
(22) Giacomo Agostini
I've been contemplating upgrading my iTX (mini) PC system for a while and as its Christmas and likely now that I'm older and no one really has any idea what to buy me something other than socks and other boring clothes so comtemplating whether to treat myself Grin

There's nothing wrong with my current motherboard, CPU (its an i7-3770) and memory (16GB of DDR3) but I have a desire for an M2 based SSD for stupidly fast performance compared to my OS drive already being a 2.5" SSD which in the real world (rather than performance benchmarks) is pretty much as fast as required.

I reckon the parts I'd replace with this upgrade I can sell for ~£200 on ebay so the question isn't so much 'to buy to not to buy' but whether I'll have bought them by the time you read this.

/forum/index.php?t=getfile&id=22509&private=0
^^ note this is CCL Online, they're just 3 miles up the road from me and in stock RollEyes
  • Attachment: Capture.PNG
    (Size: 56.92KB, Downloaded 289 times)
Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question [message #301558 is a reply to message #301557] Sat, 21 December 2019 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kakugo is currently offline  Kakugo   Italy
Messages: 8106
Registered: August 2003
Location: Throne of Disgrace
Karma: 43
(19) John Surtees
The CPU alone is about €180+VAT here. Doh
Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question [message #301559 is a reply to message #301558] Sat, 21 December 2019 12:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
Messages: 24124
Registered: June 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Karma: 43
(22) Giacomo Agostini
yeah, its a bargain at the moment that CPU + I get a voucher code for Borderlands 3 or The Outer Worlds + 3 months of Xbox Game Pass all of which I'd probably sell on if possible
Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question [message #301560 is a reply to message #301557] Sat, 21 December 2019 12:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kakugo is currently offline  Kakugo   Italy
Messages: 8106
Registered: August 2003
Location: Throne of Disgrace
Karma: 43
(19) John Surtees
This is the right time to ask: will you need a new Win10 license or will you be able to use the old activation code? think
Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question [message #301561 is a reply to message #301560] Sat, 21 December 2019 12:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
Messages: 24124
Registered: June 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Karma: 43
(22) Giacomo Agostini
99% sure I'll not need a new code, Win10 is a digital license I think tied to my hotmail account (I log into PC with that rather than local account) so fairly sure it'll activate (or not need activating) as I still think the long game Microsoft is playing with Windows 10 is to get everyone on it then at some point in the future make it a subscription for future updates a bit like Office 365 but that could be 3-10 years away and it'll still probably be called Windows 10 just newer build version.

I do plan to use macrium to image my current Samsung SSD (2.5" Sata version) to the M2 SSD rather than a complete reinstall and fairly certain Win10 will do the biz with drivers/reconfig for the new board/cpu without much intervention.
Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question [message #301562 is a reply to message #301561] Sat, 21 December 2019 15:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
Messages: 24124
Registered: June 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Karma: 43
(22) Giacomo Agostini
Collected Grin

This evening I'll mostly be......

https://i.imgur.com/0PeRqGD.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Pewb0FK.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/QM5DwXv.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ha0AAbQ.jpg
Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question [message #301565 is a reply to message #301562] Sun, 22 December 2019 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
Messages: 24124
Registered: June 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Karma: 43
(22) Giacomo Agostini
I stand corrected on the Win10 activation, it didn't re-activate itself and trying to activate manually and re-entering my Win10 key didn't work either. Luckily I have a spare Win10 key so changed it to that then it activated Sad
Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question [message #301566 is a reply to message #301565] Sun, 22 December 2019 18:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
Messages: 24124
Registered: June 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Karma: 43
(22) Giacomo Agostini
Took me about 2 hours start to finish including getting the air duster and cotton buds out to give everything a good clean but excluding Windows activation/driver installs but

Case removed
https://i.imgur.com/SmmqF55.jpg

Graphics card removed exposing main motherboard
https://i.imgur.com/rRrbTpB.jpg

My ITX power supply, smaller than a standard ATX PSU
https://i.imgur.com/K9z4F2c.jpg

Old motherboard, cpu and memory lifted out. I've stuck these on ebay separately to recover perhaps 1/2 the cost of the upgrade
https://i.imgur.com/SpIo09O.jpg

Empty case after a good clean
https://i.imgur.com/Fp5Hdwy.jpg

Fitting the Samsung M2 SSD drive in the boards M2 slot.....it has integrated heatsink to keep it cool
https://i.imgur.com/F6kuoLU.jpg

CPU and memory in place
https://i.imgur.com/aRf0juI.jpg

CPU Cooler fitted
https://i.imgur.com/omWGsZ8.jpg

This is something I wasn't aware off. New motherboards have RGB connectors for controlling LEDS either in the case (I don't have these) but the included AMD CPU cooler has LED lighting and plugging this cable in allows me to set either in BIOS or Windows Utility how I want the LED, it can colour cycle, pulse, random etc different colours. I've just opted for a steady Blue LED effect as mostly my case is closed and not really bothered with LED stuff but its kinda off a quite cool new thing if your into lighting up your PC with LEDs
https://i.imgur.com/7iCYFwd.jpg

Motherboard in place
https://i.imgur.com/fmD3enT.jpg

Connecting up the cables, the worst part particularly the small wires for power switch, reset, power led & HD Led

On the plus side, as I now only have a single 2.5" SSD drive, I could remove a small cage below the DVD drive that held the two drives as there's still a small space for a single 2.5" SSD and that gives a bit t of extra room in the small case
https://i.imgur.com/1Rk1ZUf.jpg

First boot. I've temporarily hooked up my old 250GB SSD drive which is now replaced by the M2 SSD in order to boot to Windows, get drivers installed then I used Macrium reflect to image the 2.5" SSD to the M2 SSD, shutdown and removed this drive as it now boots on M2 drive
https://i.imgur.com/dGYOSzt.jpg

First boot...took a few minutes then I did have to use the Gigabtye drivers CD to install the network card driver as without that Windows 10 couldn't get on the internet to get the other drivers
https://i.imgur.com/P3NsUUI.jpg

Last pic before putting the case back on with my preferred static blue LED effect on the cooler
https://i.imgur.com/RFgBn82.jpg

the new M2 SSD performance. In the real world use, it doesn't actually feel any quicker in use than the old 2.5" Sata SSD but makes for impressive figures to screenshot
https://i.imgur.com/n7Eg39o.png
Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question [message #301567 is a reply to message #301565] Sun, 22 December 2019 18:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kakugo is currently offline  Kakugo   Italy
Messages: 8106
Registered: August 2003
Location: Throne of Disgrace
Karma: 43
(19) John Surtees
Kermit wrote on Sun, 22 December 2019 18:34
I stand corrected on the Win10 activation, it didn't re-activate itself and trying to activate manually and re-entering my Win10 key didn't work either. Luckily I have a spare Win10 key so changed it to that then it activated Sad
That's what I suspected as well... meaning I'll need another key when I'll decided to "upgreyedd" my computer. Doh

And why are CPU boxes this big these days? think Unless there's a truly huge fan in there I see no reason to put a CPU in such a huge box.
Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question [message #301568 is a reply to message #301567] Sun, 22 December 2019 18:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
Messages: 24124
Registered: June 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Karma: 43
(22) Giacomo Agostini
The CPU came with the fan shown in the pics although I think you posted before I finished submitting the above run of pics so you probably see that by now smile
Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question [message #301569 is a reply to message #301568] Sun, 22 December 2019 19:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
Messages: 24124
Registered: June 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Karma: 43
(22) Giacomo Agostini
New CPU CPUz benchmark score/info

https://i.imgur.com/6yVQbGa.png

New CPU compared to my old one (Intel i7-3770) and the top ranking CPUs available (I've cropped a lot of the inbetween CPU's off this list)
https://i.imgur.com/Zokewt3.png
Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question [message #301571 is a reply to message #301557] Sun, 22 December 2019 19:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kakugo is currently offline  Kakugo   Italy
Messages: 8106
Registered: August 2003
Location: Throne of Disgrace
Karma: 43
(19) John Surtees
My CPU is probably on the Aceramic Neolithic edition of those benchmark scores. Laugh
Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question [message #301573 is a reply to message #301571] Sun, 22 December 2019 21:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
Messages: 24124
Registered: June 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Karma: 43
(22) Giacomo Agostini
Check it out, no account needed or install & totally free, its been around for years. I use CPUz all the time at home and work especially when wanting to know how much memory is in a PC and in what slots (and how many free) without opening the case

https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html <-- download the ZIP ENGLISH version, unzip then run CPUz x64 version executable for full info on your CPU, the benchmark has its own tab, takes a minute to run then links to a page where you can compare

I'm going to guess at about 200 for single core of your CPU although I totally forget what you have but I'm sure your CUP is not that old. The multithreads score takes into account all cores and threads so for my old CPU that had 4 cores and 8 threads, this new one is 8 cores and 16 threads* which is why my multithread score is not 8x single core but more like a multiple of 10

*I'm not 100% sure what "threads" are but I think its a way of having a single core doing two jobs at once (multitasking) so 16 threads is not equal to 16 cores but perhaps only a small 10% gain due to the core being able to process a second threads processing while in idle waiting on memory to return information from first thread.
Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question [message #301574 is a reply to message #301573] Sun, 22 December 2019 21:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
Messages: 24124
Registered: June 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Karma: 43
(22) Giacomo Agostini
Googled it as I'm the curious type....I was more or less on the right tracks

https://www.howtogeek.com/194756/cpu-basics-multiple-cpus-co res-and-hyper-threading-explained/
Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question [message #301576 is a reply to message #301574] Mon, 23 December 2019 08:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
Messages: 24124
Registered: June 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Karma: 43
(22) Giacomo Agostini
A conclusion - I wasted my money with the upgrade but it was a scratch I had to itch and wanted to treat myself Grin

Dispite the gains in benchmarks (SSD & CPU), the PC feels no quicker than before with my 3-5 year old Intel i7 CPU & same amount of memory (16Gb) which is now faster DDR4 vs previous DDR3. Already having 2 x SSDs (one for programs/windows & larger one for data/files) and a good amount of memory + not really playing games meant I can't really tell the difference. I only have a few games installed on the PC but only ever play a game thats now 10 years old eg not too demanding and was already set to run full 1920x1080 resolution that I'd already pegged the FPS (Frame per second) at a constant 120fps which is the highest really needed so now that game plays just as before and still pegged at a constant 120fps (steady fps is better than having fps vary between 50fps and 180fps depending on whats happening on screen in terms of graphics demand.

I did load up F1 2017 which is a bit more demanding and offers more options to turn up the graphics from MEDIUM to ULTRA HIGH then ran the games own benchmark around monaco and it was pushing 45-55fps. CHanged from UTLRA to HIGH (one level more than before) and it does 100+ FPS but I honestly have to look very hard to tell the difference on buildings/track and cars and only my son might ever play that game but even thats a rareity now as he has the newer F1 2019 on his Xbox.

Doing other stuff like browsing, booting windows, editing pics, its as before and even get an impression, its a bit slower to open and start some things like installing a small program/utility but that might just be in my head.

So in conclusion, it wasn't really worth the £374 but I'll get about £200-240 back when I sell the old parts and it was more of a treat for myself than something that was needed. Best analogy I can think off given this is a bike forum is while i know there's now a lot faster Fireblades (and other makes of sportbikes) pushing 200bhp, my CBR929 I've now had about 10 years (second time around after owning a different 929 in 2001-2003) is like the original Intel i7 CPU, 16GB DDR3 and SATA based SSD's, it does the job well enough and I'd be hard pressed to ride much faster with a newer bike on the road. COnversly if I considered myself a PC gamer always playing the latest releases, then the upgrade would be more along for the lines of changing current 2001 Fireblade to a 2005-2008 Fireblade and taking it out on a trackday in that I'd no doubt get round the track quicker but as I don't do that (or play new games), its a mute point Laugh
Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question [message #301578 is a reply to message #301557] Mon, 23 December 2019 12:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kakugo is currently offline  Kakugo   Italy
Messages: 8106
Registered: August 2003
Location: Throne of Disgrace
Karma: 43
(19) John Surtees
My CPU is an AMD A8-6600K "with Radeon HD Graphics"... Get your coat

Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question [message #301579 is a reply to message #301578] Mon, 23 December 2019 13:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
Messages: 24124
Registered: June 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Karma: 43
(22) Giacomo Agostini
Thats not so bad about 50% the single core speed of my new CPU and from that probably 75% of my now old (but still evidently adequate as it turns out) i7-3770

https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-amd_a8_6600k-180-v s-amd_ryzen_7_2700-875

Do you have your brothers graphics card fitted now as I seem to recall my i7-3770 which also had internal GPU (Graphics) ran hotter the few times I ran it using the CPU's graphics (which makes sense...more going on inside the processor die) then when switching back to external graphics card, temps went down from 50-65C when running graphics/cpu tests to 30-45C when it was only busy running high CPU tasks with the graphics offloaded to the external card.

Could be with the external graphics card fitted and the GPU in the A8 sitting idle, you might be ok to overclock the A8 a bit although its a bit of an art overclocking with messing with voltages and tons of settings and I haven't bothered with it myself for donkeys years (since AMD X2 CPU) but if you need more oomph, then its something to look into see if you could get perhaps a stable 200-600Mhz more out of the CPU by upping the multiplier (assuming the CPU is unlocked) if your memory can cope. All depends if you like tinkering with your PC or just want to turn it on and work/play
Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question [message #301595 is a reply to message #301579] Sun, 29 December 2019 23:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
Messages: 24124
Registered: June 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Karma: 43
(22) Giacomo Agostini
Old parts now all sold on ebay (prices excl the postage which I normally about right eg no piss take but no free postage either)

i7-3770 CPU £80
Gigabyte Motherboard £77.50
16GB DDR3 Memory £46
Samsung 250GB SSD £33
Borderlands 3 Game £27.50 (part of Ryzen CPU promo, I got the code by verifying my new CPU installed online but as I'm not interested in the game, I sold the code on ebay)

Total £264 minus £4 ebay fees as I listed during ebays regular £1 max final value fee days minus about 3% paypal fees

Total cost of upgrade £371 - £264 = £107 plus £6 or £7 pp fees. Feeling better now that this was a cost effective upgrade smile
Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question [message #301596 is a reply to message #301595] Mon, 30 December 2019 10:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tomthumb is currently offline  Tomthumb   United Kingdom
Messages: 737
Registered: January 2016
Karma: 6
(6) Moto1 GP Racer
Thumbs Up Wink
Re: To buy or not to buy, that is the question [message #301597 is a reply to message #301557] Mon, 30 December 2019 13:12 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Kakugo is currently offline  Kakugo   Italy
Messages: 8106
Registered: August 2003
Location: Throne of Disgrace
Karma: 43
(19) John Surtees
I have a question: how do you manage on eBay? think
I have occasionally bought some things there but I haven't managed to sell a single rusty nail on it yet. I usually had better luck on local classifieds but lately that avenue has been closed as well. It seems the market for used stuff has rolled over and died and I am stuck with a BMW saddle I cannot use and nobody wants. Laugh
Previous Topic: FireFox...
Next Topic: Lost Email
Goto Forum:
  

[ PDF ]

Current Time: Wed Jul 06 09:02:04 BST 2022

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.03559 seconds