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Re: Kerm's Sachs Madass 160 [message #302102 is a reply to message #302101] Wed, 08 April 2020 19:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tomthumb is currently offline  Tomthumb   United Kingdom
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(6) Moto1 GP Racer
Hi looking again at Horn button the Black/Blue joins from the Horn switch gear to the Black on the Harness, and the wire from the Horn button should go to the Light Green on the Horn itself, the Green is of course Earth on the Bike harness
Re: Kerm's Sachs Madass 160 [message #302110 is a reply to message #302102] Wed, 08 April 2020 23:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
ok, I'll go along those lines and possibly check Thurs after work but more likely Good Friday if I'm not going out anywhere RollEyes
Re: Kerm's Sachs Madass 160 [message #302114 is a reply to message #302110] Thu, 09 April 2020 10:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tomthumb is currently offline  Tomthumb   United Kingdom
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(6) Moto1 GP Racer
Just a query Si, have you got the Left Hand Universal or the Left Hand Fast Cancel. think
Re: Kerm's Sachs Madass 160 [message #302115 is a reply to message #302114] Thu, 09 April 2020 12:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
Hi, its this one mate, not sure what fast cancel is think

https://www.ooracing.com/switch-gear-left-hand-late-style.ht ml
Re: Kerm's Sachs Madass 160 [message #302116 is a reply to message #302115] Thu, 09 April 2020 12:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tomthumb is currently offline  Tomthumb   United Kingdom
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(6) Moto1 GP Racer
Thumbs Up
Re: Kerm's Sachs Madass 160 [message #302119 is a reply to message #302116] Thu, 09 April 2020 20:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
Still struggling, had another crack at it and blew my first fuse, I have one 'proper' one left. I suspect the issue might be on the RHS wiring given neither headlight comes on when the light switch is set to fully on but one does light (there's 2 the same on mounted vertically) one of the headlights headlight with it on sidelights and iirc the LHS main/dipped switch when trigger switches the other light on but the first one off

What sort of info might help this, eg if I do a complete list of current wires (values below just for example) together with what works on the headlights with each switch position
[b]
LHS Harness       RHS Switchgear[/b]
Gr                Bl
W                 W
etc

I have however emailed a small local motorcycle mechanic to see if they do electrics and ideally mobile service but not sure in the current situation its an option but running out of ideas as so many wires scrambles my brain in short order Sad

[edit]
Just went out to confirm the above, accidentally touched 2 loose wires and blown my second fuse Wall
Re: Kerm's Sachs Madass 160 [message #302122 is a reply to message #302119] Fri, 10 April 2020 05:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tomthumb is currently offline  Tomthumb   United Kingdom
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(6) Moto1 GP Racer
had a rethink with r/h gear ,try Yellow/White harness to Yellow/White Gear Switch and Grey/White Harness to Blue Gear switch, been searching for the Passing light, does it have one on your Gearswitch Thumbs Up
Re: Kerm's Sachs Madass 160 [message #302124 is a reply to message #302122] Fri, 10 April 2020 06:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tomthumb is currently offline  Tomthumb   United Kingdom
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(6) Moto1 GP Racer
Forget the second part Grey/White Harness to Blue switch gear ,That's wrong particularly cos there isn't one RollEyes
Re: Kerm's Sachs Madass 160 [message #302150 is a reply to message #302124] Sat, 11 April 2020 22:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
Tomorrow I've cancelled all my plans for a huge BBQ with family and friends followed by a quiz night at the local RollEyes so I've decided I'm going to have to try fix it although don't have any fuses so it'll be conceptual until my pack of 10 fuses arrives next week.

In laymans terms, whats the process to get each wire right as while I can follow wires on the main wiring diagram I'd then right that wire colour down (harness side) then find the wire that should connect to that wire on the switchgear (switchgear wiring pic) and note that colour down next to it. If it was yours and you could check, would the next step be a multimeter to test the concept?

I have it in my head the Green wire is earth as it seems to be everywhere but surely thats normally black? think I did an resistance test on one of the green wires in the harness connectors up front to engine and zero ohms but think I also tested black wires and while not as near zero, it wasn't far off so that confused me but of course I forgot to note findings down so tomorrow I;m going to have to get pen/paper/wiring diagrams and multimeter out its just the systematic working through them I'm not 100% sure on
Re: Kerm's Sachs Madass 160 [message #302152 is a reply to message #302150] Sun, 12 April 2020 02:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tomthumb is currently offline  Tomthumb   United Kingdom
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(6) Moto1 GP Racer
Yes Green earth ,and Black Voltage, if you look from the battery you will see Positive Black, test the Black wire for Voltage with the ignition on as you look for voltage to things like the horn, power into the horn switch and whatever comes out of the Horn switch to the horn will also be voltage, and of course the Green coming out of the Horn on harness side is Earth, and the Yellow/White Harness to the Yellow/White R/H gear switch should give you the Light Switch back on the R/H side, or hopefully so, just concentrate on those circuits that aren't working Wink
Re: Kerm's Sachs Madass 160 [message #302161 is a reply to message #302152] Sun, 12 April 2020 13:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
Thanks mate, I'll give your overview and methodology a go hopefully later when I've got my brain into gear Thumbs Up
Re: Kerm's Sachs Madass 160 [message #302235 is a reply to message #302161] Sun, 19 April 2020 21:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
I've almost given up on the bike, barely touched it for a week except for fitting new fuel tap and pipe as everytime I go to it, I know its the electrics that need to be put to bed before I can fit what remains (lights/clocks/brake line etc) but I simply cannot get my head around the headlight and the switchgear for them.

I have tail light/clocks illumination, tail/brake light, indicators, horn, ignition all work working its simply the headlight which being switched on in two steps (sidelight/main light) from the RHS switchgear but dipped/full beam controlled from the left and what looks like at first glance fairly obvious 3 wires (yellow/white = common for h/light) that after 5-10mins of trying A or B blows a fuse in my brain, gets me pissed off and generally walking away from it for another day or two. I've never had this sort of hold up on any of the other bikes I've worked on, its incredibly frustrating Wall

This might end up being one of those "unfinished project" bikes you see on ebay RollEyes
Re: Kerm's Sachs Madass 160 [message #302238 is a reply to message #302235] Sun, 19 April 2020 22:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
I suppose one option maybe https://www.ooracing.com/loom-wiring-suitable-for-madass-125 cc.html although as I've already pissed about with my new LHS and RHS switchgear wiring, it may be a job to undo that.

and if all else fails, the full monty https://www.ooracing.com/full-wiring-kit-for-madass-125-late -50cc.html

Can you tell I'm getting desperate Laugh
Re: Kerm's Sachs Madass 160 [message #302242 is a reply to message #302238] Mon, 20 April 2020 19:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quazi is currently offline  Quazi   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
Si, I've resisted the temptation to get involved on this one Laugh as I have a lot going on, but at a quick glance, the first thing I notice is your horn feed should be light green should it not?
You should have anegative return, so in essence, there should be 2 wires for the horn and not 1, a positive feed into the switchgear and out again.

I'll have a look into the rest.
Re: Kerm's Sachs Madass 160 [message #302243 is a reply to message #302242] Mon, 20 April 2020 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quazi is currently offline  Quazi   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
Your orignial loom doesn't appear to have a pass light circuit, (brown/white on switchgear wiring)

This is my take on it... smile

New switch gear:

Black/blue: horn feed out switch +, to light green on your loom.
Black/white: Negative, to black on your loom (this should supply the 12v to your horn when button pressed.)

You could confirm these are horn related by sticking a test meter across them on a continuity test, does it bleep when you press the horn button? If not, find out what pair do.

Yellow/white: Lights feed in +, to yellow/white on your loom.
Black: l/h indy +, to Orange on you loom.
Light green: r/h indy +, light blue on your loom.
Light blue: flasher feed +, to grey on your loom.
Yellow: high beam +, to blue on your loom.
White: dip beam +, to white on your loom.

Brown/white: feed pass light, not used.

{let me check this before you rush out to the shed.) smile
Re: Kerm's Sachs Madass 160 [message #302244 is a reply to message #302243] Mon, 20 April 2020 20:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quazi is currently offline  Quazi   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
If it were me, I'd be using a test meter to confirm, saves fuses and fires!

But I'd say the above is a good starting point.
Two I'm not happy about are what is listed as "Black/white neg" I think that should be horn related, doesn't really matter what way round the horn connections go as long as you have 2, and the right 2 confirmed with a meter.

Other 1 is the pass light, you may be able to double this up to the high beam connection, but again without testing it, that may not work.
Re: Kerm's Sachs Madass 160 [message #302245 is a reply to message #302244] Mon, 20 April 2020 23:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
Thanks Quazi, I'll give it a go in the next day or two although I think part of the problem may lie with an incorrect wire on the RHS and I'm still working through that but getting myself confused again and will have to go back to TT's plan for that and see if perhaps one wire is out (or more likely I messed up)

This is what I have atm in notepad at present as I had mostly already redone the LHS wiring myself earlier but they seem to tie up 80/90% with your recommendations so I've added from your recommendation what I was unsure off below.

I spoke with the guy from ooracing (Adrian) today as he tried to help based on his knowledge and what he had on the shelf although I'd bought the last of this particular model of LHS Switchgear of his shelf, this was over the phone and its not easy to convey (or me to understand) everything but one thing I did ask as I couldn't remember was that the two projector type headlights (there's no up front sidelights), only the bottom one is supposed to come on for dipped beam and just the upper for main beam. I had been under the impression for main beam both would be on and I'd prefer that but he wasn't sure my generator is capable of 2x15watts (both) although I think it probably can manage both as its an upgraded engine

Can anyone suggest the blanks or possible mistakes with the RHS wiring below?

Original LHS Switchgear
===========================
Blue - High beam
Grey/White - Head light (Connect to Grey/White on 9981)
White - Low beam
Orange - Flasher R/H
Grey - Flasher feed in +
Light Blue - Flasher L/H
Green - Ground
Light Green - Horn feed
----Black - Clutch switch
----Yellow/Green - Clutch switch
    
Wiring: New LHS                                         Loom Harness
===========================                             ===========================
Black/Blue - Horn feed -                                LG (Light Green)
Black/White - Neg -                                     B (Black)
Yellow/White - Lights feed in +                         Y/W (Yellow/White)
Black - L/H flasher +                                   O  (Orange)
Light green - R/H flasher +                             LB (Light Blue)
Light blue - Flasher feed in +                          GR  (Grey)
Yellow - High beam +                                    W   (White)
White - Dip beam +                                      BL   (Blue)
Brown/White - Feed in + for pass light                  N/A

Original RHS Switchgear
===========================
GR/W - Starter Ground
Y/R - Starter
Br - Headlight Common/Speedo Light
B - Sidelight?
Y/W - Dip beam
G/Y (green Yellow) - Brake switch (with black)


New RHS Switchgear                                      Loom Harness
===========================                             ===========================
Yellow - Power+                                         Y (Yellow) or B (Black)
Brown - Speedo Light                                    Br  (Brown)
Yellow/White - Side Light                               Y/W (Yellow/White) or ??
Grey/White - Headlight                                  B   (Black) or Y (Yellow)
Green - Start Switch Ground                             GR/W  (Grey/White)
Yellow/Red - Start Switch                               Y/R    (Yellow/Red)
Light Green - Kill Switch                               G (Green)
Black/White - Kill Switch                               B/W (Black/White)
Black - Brake Light                                     Gr/Y   Green/Yellow
Yellow/Green - Brake                                    Gr/Y   Green/Yellow
Re: Kerm's Sachs Madass 160 [message #302247 is a reply to message #302245] Tue, 21 April 2020 20:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Quazi is currently offline  Quazi   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
Si, the problem with electrickery over the internet is like pissing into othe wind, especially if 1 party has little knowledge on the subject.


A test meter makes things so much simpler, as you can test the functional wires on the switchgear that are relevant to your need.

my initial trial would be:

Yellow power input: not sure this is needed. (black gives you your power input for the lights and brake switch)
Brown: speedo light, again not sure this is needed because the yellow and white gives you side lights which should incorporate the speedo light. to the brown.
Grey/white: headlight to yell/white.
Green start switch ground: to green/white.
yell/red start sw to yell/red.
Light green: kill sw, to green.
Black/white: kill sw, to black/white.
Black: brake, to green/yell. (The two brake wires could be reversed as it would depend again on the internal arrangment.)
Yellow/green: brake to black. (as above)


The black from your loom provides a +12v to the brake switch and the headlight switch (according to the original arrangement.)
That's as much as I can offer without applying a test meter to it to sunstantiate the layout.
Some switchgears have an internal link to the high beam for the pass light so your spare wire on the lefthand side, could be a return for this link if it exists.

If I was closer to you, I would willingly come help you sort it out.
Re: Kerm's Sachs Madass 160 [message #302248 is a reply to message #302247] Tue, 21 April 2020 21:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   Poland
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
Thanks Quazi Thumbs Up

I'm sure this will get me going in the right direction again, appreciate the time you put in to give me pointers as I know its not easy to convey things like this via the internet.

I'll give it a go if one thing or other doesn't work, I'll get the multimeter out again although thats usually followed a short time later by brain fade Laugh
Re: Kerm's Sachs Madass 160 [message #302293 is a reply to message #302248] Sun, 26 April 2020 20:15 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Kermit is currently offline  Kermit   United Kingdom
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(22) Giacomo Agostini
Sunday 26th April 2020

Progress at last - finally with the help from Quazi and TT I've made progress with the headlight wiring - thanks guys Thumbs Up

This picture taken Saturday as I did intend to roll it outside to work on the electrics in the sunshine but didn't get much past the rolling it out, faffing around for an hour or so and rolling it back in Cool
https://i.imgur.com/JcVvqY6.jpg

I did however find the time to take a couple of nice shots of it
https://i.imgur.com/d5Bs66u.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/7k4igD5.jpg

Today, after a good amount of faffing about I managed to finished the connectors and get the headlight on
https://i.imgur.com/EKlWoDX.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/YhunLgd.jpg

Have one small issue and can't figure out the cause but with the clocks small bulb for the indicator light (one for both sides) fitted, when putting on left or right indicator, both side flash like with hazard warning. If I remove the bulb the indicators work properly again in relation to the switch. I can see the clocks indy warning bulb has both O(range) and LB (Light Blue) wires to it on the wiring diagram and these along with common GR(ey) are the same wires that go to the indicators so can't figure out why both started flashing both together. For now I've rectified the issue by removing the bulb as I don't really need it anyway RollEyes
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